Curse

Rohans Healer · Dec 29, 2011, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Fun pug t4way, average 11-15 min runs and without any lechers

Team + basic tact:
A/N or N/A (mt) - Regular mt with mop and unseen.

D/A, D/W, Me/D or N/D (solo VoS spiker) - Follows mt's targets.

Rt/R or R/Rt (solo toc eoe) - Solos ToC+4 beasts after first spike while doing defend in forge+solo 2 rangers on battlefield if t3 needs to go from left side of undeads on his way to ToC with griffins.

M/N (ua) - Healer for spiker in case of fail spike + if needed, help spiker to finish leftovers with "You move like a dwarf" and Necrosis.

R/A (T1 ranger) - Burning forest, ToS and Khobay.

A/E (T2 split) - Split with ranger. Camp, Priest, send mage+kill Lord at ToS.
Windborne Speed will speed up mage (air 3).

A/E or R/A (T3) - 2-3 Groups of undead Ball for main team, depending on spawn. After spike Regular Forest job (with glitch or without, what ever u know) + Bringing Griffons.

A/e or R/A (T4) - Taking Slaves for t1, taking Hunt, doing Restore and 2 wolfs at cave. basically as regular t2 in t2way runs but without khobay.

There are small ways to make the run a little faster, just do what's works for you.

Very important that the spiker actually can do spikes solo. After all, slow main team=slow quests for teras (forge should be done in 6-9 min).

The fact that this team has 4 teras (not including mt), gives the ability to cover fast in case of unexpected events. Best cover for ToS (if T1 died in burning forest or before ToS cleared from Abyssals) is main team, 2-3 balls, including ToS itself from Burning Forest side.

Bad run is 20-25 min, which is still faster then most perfect t2way runs.

Pcons are not needed, except for rangers, but it is your choice

Very fun run for MT and VoS.

Here are few of my runs:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/gw013d.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/gw014h.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/gw015.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/gw018f.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/gw019e.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/gw020j.jpg/

Enjoy.

paranon · Dec 29, 2011, 12:33 PM // 12:33

The builds look ok and the tactics are much better than they were before, but the only thing i would say is that there isn't really a good reason to run this over t3 manly/mes spike - t3way is easily capable of 12/13min runs and even bad runs its usually <20min.
What are your average forge times with this and how often do the runs go wrong?

Life Bringing · Dec 30, 2011, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Id have to agree with paranon on the t3way comparison. There just isnt a whole lot of reason to run a t4way except for shits and giggles.

Oh and btw, perfect t2 run is 14/15 minutes

Rohans Healer · Dec 30, 2011, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

The builds look ok and the tactics are much better than they were before, but the only thing i would say is that there isn't really a good reason to run this over t3 manly/mes spike - t3way is easily capable of 12/13min runs and even bad runs its usually <20min.
What are your average forge times with this and how often do the runs go wrong?

The build and tact remained the same, nothing changed.
The reason why i do t4 with 1 spiker is very simple, when i spike other vos is leching and it is fun to solo.
+ 1 more sin gives me the option to cover faster fail pug sins.

In 6 months never had fail run except when few rits done solo toc as practice. From now and then there are sins that fail but as i said, covering them is no problem.

I agree that t3way for pugs has little difference, main difference are the spikers because not every1 can solo fast and clean (nec can spike clean spikes 1 after another, soul reaping bonus).

The idea of those runs is not speed, but fun. My friends and myself like doing solo spiking, relaxed and easy jobs as sins or rangers (for example, t2 split has less work in this team build, no pressure on him).

It is relaxed and easy run for pugs, the "hard" jobs: mt+vos are never pugs in my runs but for pug group with no core mt/vos i also recommend t3way.

We do t3way when vos practicing to become solo spiker, so i get another spiker for cover just in case.

Any group will do what is best for them.

andresmurcia · Dec 30, 2011, 12:58 PM // 12:58

for most part ive done lots fow runs with rohan his build have always impressed me there fast very easy to learn he runs with pugs most of the time and out of 100 run ive seen 3 failed runs and that usually caused by the rit

He's very big fan doing runs without any pcons and most record runs
you guys use full pcons most pugs cant afford drop 8-10k in pcons per run

so his tactics far better for pugs to learn

i know you guys have records in fow
but dont forget there other payers that have being here since beta
and alot builds you see today were put by people like rohans and other player
that stood the test of time and are still used today

paranon · Dec 30, 2011, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by andresmurcia

He's very big fan doing runs without any pcons and most record runs
you guys use full pcons most pugs cant afford drop 8-10k in pcons per run
so his tactics far better for pugs to learn
i know you guys have records in fow
but dont forget there other payers that have being here since beta
and alot builds you see today were put by people like rohans and other player
that stood the test of time and are still used today

Nobody is suggesting that record tactics are good for casual runs, but me and life bringing both know an awful lot about fow and have been playing it pretty much forever, so we know what we are talking about, and there are builds that are easier to play than these and no slower. I don't know why you posted this thread if that wasn't what you wanted to hear. We aren't going to pat you on the back for coming up with some inefficient builds that are about 2 years old already. (FYI life bringing made the 11min fow builds which are almost identical to these, except faster).

It's nice that you take pugs on your runs but it's not really something special, most people don't run with pugs because they suck and because it's more fun to run with friends/guildies on VoIP, where you are pretty much garunteed a clean and fun run, idk why you would want to run with pugs but then that is my opinion and you are welcome to do whatever you want with whatever builds you want, but when you post them on guru you have to be prepared to accept that they aren't the best builds out there.

Rohans Healer · Dec 30, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

Nobody is suggesting that record tactics are good for casual runs, but me and life bringing both know an awful lot about fow and have been playing it pretty much forever, so we know what we are talking about, and there are builds that are easier to play than these and no slower. I don't know why you posted this thread if that wasn't what you wanted to hear. We aren't going to pat you on the back for coming up with some inefficient builds that are about 2 years old already. (FYI life bringing made the 11min fow builds which are almost identical to these, except faster).

It's nice that you take pugs on your runs but it's not really something special, most people don't run with pugs because they suck and because it's more fun to run with friends/guildies on VoIP, where you are pretty much garunteed a clean and fun run, idk why you would want to run with pugs but then that is my opinion and you are welcome to do whatever you want with whatever builds you want, but when you post them on guru you have to be prepared to accept that they aren't the best builds out there.

Your job is to help pugs not to suck if u do fow since forever. If i were thinking the way u are, no monk in gw could 55 uw/600 doa/fuse-prot in Ha properly.

Pugs suck as u said because of that:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_FoW_Manly_Spike

I do not know who wrote it and i do not understand why u send new players to read it if it is all wrong.. for example, most basic thing, the skills on vos and usage of skills as spiker (3 melee skills, while for spike all u need is Eremite's attack. I have radiant in my n/d bar because i could not find anything better but even second melee attack is useless).
UA with heal party..OMG... ua is not in group to heal mt. mt asking for hp is like t1/t2 will ask for heals. That mt should not play mt.
No wonder hard to find good monks this days.

Monk+Vos is just an example, can write about any role there.

But,
people read it, think they know fow in 1 day (or any other area) but there basics is all wrong, they cant even spike or heal correctly.

I try that pugs wont suck by teaching them some things that are new for them and so they could do it with guild/alliance.

If u feel that pugs suck i suggest that u will rewrite pvx with all your exp in fow.

Help them not to suck and don't give them links with wrong skills + usage.

Dont Tell Dave · Dec 30, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

You realise that Fow Mesway on pvx was written and tested by Paranon, right?

Paranon and myself took pugs along on Mesway runs a year ago, carried many average players to 11-14minute runs, we thought we'd make a change but it simply didnt.

A T4way exactly the same as yours but with 2x rits was also put on pvx about a year ago, and was deleted for the basic reason that pugs suck too hard to do anything more than T2/T3way at a push...

Whilst you are not in the group of people who think they know fow in 1 day, id say you are more the sort who has done it for a few months, thinks he is the shit at fow and comes up with ideas that are impractical or old.

Your first thread was a poorly made T4way fow - we gave you advise and you changed it accordingly and have now posted tactics that have been around for years. The same is happening on Pvx right now - someone posting some silly fow "terraway" with 2 main teams, it will get trashed because it is simply impractical/bad.

You, along with the person on pvx, seem to have gotten the idea that because you have some exp in fow, you know everything about it, and are trying to change things and ignore advice from players who have done fow since it began.

i mean nothing by this - but once you have been doing fow the length of time that paranon, life and myself have, you may realise that changing pug meta is simply too hard, and pointless to try. Mesway didnt change it, this wont.

There is nothing wrong with the pvx manlyway - properly ran it can do ~15minutes. It is simply dumbed down for pugs to understand properly.

I dont get what you expected from this new thread, did you want everyone to be like "HOLYSHIT THIS GUY IS AMAZING LOOK AT THE AMAZING INNOVATIVE FOW TACTICS HE CAME UP WITH! HE DESERVES TO BE RECOGNISED!!!!" ?

The changes you made are the ones that WE TOLD YOU TO MAKE. No one cares about fow here on guru aside from like 5 people, and those people already know the stuff you have posted, hell 2 of us were telling you to make the changes.

What you are trying to do is good and all, but dont think that it is anything original or special, you are pretty much preaching to the choir.

Rohans Healer · Dec 30, 2011, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Ye Dave, i play 77 months and i do fow for few months only

Please think before u speak and if u want to make it personal about yourself and paranon...
Dude u have no idea with who u talk, i have nothing to proof any more in this game
Lets just say that, if u had taken foundry run from 600/smiter group and forget them in 1 hour, my run you would not forgive.

http://www.xfire.com/video/1c4f00/ (with small and funny mistake from smiter

)

You talk to a guy who had fow armors when ectos were 90k each. I am still the best 55/ss, 600 this game ever seen and i got my r11 from monking only.

Show me where i can post pics from my HoM for you to see... (and lol, i am not talking about 50/50)

So please do not try to proof yourself to a guy that seen everything, done everything and still doing everything.

This build was not made for you but for pugs, so please do not make it personal.
It is there choice to do what ever build there is to do, i just give them something u did not.
Every time when i make a group i get whispers about t4way. This is why i posted it.

Calista Blackblood · Dec 30, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Much like the last thread,this one isn't going anywhere...